- Thank you everybody for joining us today. My name is Darlene McLennan and I'm the Manager of the Australia Disability Clearinghouse on Education and Training, or ADCET for short. Today, the webinar is being live captioned. You can see on your screen now some tips how to set up the closed captions if you need. Click on the CC button in the tool bar at the top or bottom of your screen and you can also find captions via a browser and we'll put the link in to the chat pod where you can go to the URL. I'd like to start by acknowledging I'm coming from Lutruwita, Aboriginal land, sea and waterways and I want to acknowledge, with deep respect, the traditional custodians on the land I'm on today, the Palawa people. I stand for a future that profoundly respects and acknowledges Aboriginal’s perspectives, culture, language and history and the continued effort to fight for Aboriginal justice and rights, paving the way for a strong future, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the lands we’re working from or studying on today and Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander people who may be participating in the webinar today. In this webinar, we're going to hear from students from the TAFE sector and since March, students have experienced substantial changes in how their education is delivered and we are keen to hear from them about the impact, the negative and the positive, some of the successful strategies and coping skills they've developed. Last week, we hosted a similar webinar with university students which was powerful and informing and over 80 students attended. I’m confident this webinar will be just as impactful. Before I throw to Deb Hindle, one of the facilitators for today, a couple of more housekeeping details. This webinar will be recorded and made available on ADCET in the coming days, if you have any technical difficulties, please email us at admin@adcet.edu.au. The discussion will run — panel discussion will run for about 40 to 50 minutes and at the end of that time, we will ask the students some questions. If you have any questions for the students, please add that to the Q and A box and you can rate your favourite questions by ticking the thumbs up button and that means the most popular question goes to the top and makes it easy for us to answer the question. If you want to have a chat to us or other members, sometimes we’ll say, “Hi, I'm John from the Gold Coast,” you can put that in to the chat box, that's where we have a general chat with each other. If you want everybody to see your chat, choose “All panellists and attendees”. I just want to thank the students for joining us today, it's fantastic to hear their stories and experience and two co-facilitators, Brandon and Deb. I’ll now hand to you, Deb, to do the introductions. - Thank you, Darlene. It's an honour and privilege to the back here this week and co-facilitating the student panel. As Darlene said, we heard from university students last week, but they're only half of the equation in the tertiary picture, so we wanted to really hear from TAFE students as well. And lucky to have Brandon Taylor co-facilitating with me who is a manager in student support with TAFE Queensland in the Brisbane region and I'll hand over to him in a few minutes, but first I wanted to give our student panellists a chance to introduce themselves and thank them and acknowledge the courage it takes to step up and be part of a webinar. I want to thank them for their courage and their passion and their willingness to be open and sharing their story with you. Haydn, I'll ask you to introduce yourself. - Hi, I'm Haydn, I'm undertaking a certificate four of training and assessment, I work in the community services sector and specialise in mentoring adolescents and young adults on the autism spectrum. I have a diagnosis of autism and Tourettes syndrome. - Thanks, Haydn, you're from TAFE New South Wales, that's right? - Yes, that's correct. - That's okay, that's what I'm here for and I think you bring a wonderful perspective because you can talk from your own experiences, plus the students that you also support who are attending TAFE. Ryan? - I am Ryan, and I'm studying a diploma of community services at the south … campus in Brisbane, I have been studying the diploma since the middle of 2016 and finally in my final semester now. - That must feel good. Thank you Ryan. Will be great to have your experience of being at TAFE for a few years and that difference then and now this year, that COVID has made to your studies this year. Maxine? - Good afternoon. My name is Maxine and I was studying online, but I went into Townsville TAFE campus for two days a week with disability support. And I was doing my community services and certificate three, I have mental health and depression and also a learning disability. - Thanks. Maxine, you have an award coming your way I understand. - Oh, goodness, yes. - Which is a student of the year award, is that right? - Yes, I was nominated for student of the year award equity. And I'm in the top three which is absolutely amazing. So, thank you. - Congratulations, Maxine is demonstrating today, coincidentally sometimes we have needed to juggle family responsibilities with our study responsibilities and work responsibilities. - Absolutely. - Thank you, Maxine. I'm going to hand over to Brandon to maybe give a bit more introduction of himself and to start asking questions, thanks. - Thank you, Darlene and Deb. Good afternoon, everybody, and great to be here for this webinar, it's absolutely wonderful to have some of our students that we can listen to. So, Maxine, Haydn, Ryan, a very warm welcome to all of you. I'm the Student Support Manager for TAFE Queensland in the Brisbane region. Ryan and I know each other quite well. We have been having a chat about some of the questions we're going to work through today because it's student insight that we would like to focus on, particularly during what has been such a challenging time. So, guys, we're going to jump straight in, Haydn, maybe if I can come to you first. - Sure. - We'll start off simply with, could you tell us, what was your response when you were first informed about moving to online study? - Well, initially, I would say I was a bit concerned as to how the classroom dynamic would change, what software I'd need. It was an anxious time, particularly because I have a business and a number of things to juggle, I think, how am I going to adapt to this and what supports strategies do I need to put in place to get through this effectively. It was more going into damage control. Initially, we had no idea — none of us had any idea how bad COVID would be or how the wider social scenario in terms of just what's going on in the world, how that was going to affect when classes would resume. It was very much up in the air and the fact that we couldn't get definitive answers or pin anything down was probably the thing that caused the most anxiety, I wanted information. If I had information, I could devise coping strategies, but it wasn't there at first. Initially, that was my impression. - Thank you Haydn. I think we can all relate to those feelings for sure. Ryan, can I ask you the same question; could you give us your response? How was that for you when you were first informed? - Initially, for me, very much along the same lines as Haydn. I was just anxious about how it was all going to happen, and I probably had a little bit more anxiety only because I didn't have access to stable internet at the time either which meant that I didn't necessarily have access to all the resources that I needed to do the work and assessments and stuff like that. So, very much anxious at the time. - Thanks, Ryan, and you raise another consideration there. Maxine, was that similar to your experience? - Yes, definitely. So, although I did some of my course online, because you had the option, it was part‑time online. When I wasn't able to access my disability support with my beautiful disability support worker, Aisha, I got very nervous, I don't cope well with change and it was massively changed. When I'm with Aisha, she knows my triggers and understands if I get anxious, she can calm me down. At home, I don't have that support for myself, it's just me and the children. So, if I get off track, Aisha can bring me back from if I don't understand something, she can put it in a way I could understand. So, it was very nervous going online by myself. But I did have the support online, it was completely different, face to face is quite important for people to connect with as well. So, going in to TAFE, having the coffee, saying hello to people, socialising and then being isolated at home for 13 weeks with three children was a bit challenging. - Yeah, thank you for that. It's a wonderfully honest insight to some of the challenges for parents as well, leading into the impacts and how that may be impacting on people's ability to keep up with their studies and lack of interaction. - Yes, definitely. - Haydn, maybe if I can come back to yourself there; what about those impacts on yourself, how have you managed to keep up with your studies and manage those changing interactions? - Well, I probably have to say the biggest thing is you have to be an effective self-advocate. Nobody will know your own needs in terms of being a student with a disability than yourself and the people in your immediate support network that might be able to, hey, I can see you are not travelling so well, you look a bit burnt out, are you resting appropriately. Check in with yourself, and asking those around you in your immediate support network to say, if I'm not looking too crash hot, let me know, I may need to take some self-care time. I would say, don't be afraid - if you have a support need bring it up with your teachers, disability support advocate. If you don't have a network of support in the education sector, put the feelers out. It can be a socially triggering thing to do, but you need to put your foot out and ask for support otherwise you won't get it. Especially, because every other non‑disabled student is also going through the same process of stress, job, caring for kids that you are. It can be easy for your voice to get drowned out because you're not the only one struggling. Sometimes, you need to be, hey, I really need a hand here. So, aside from self-care, have a routine, make sure that you've got appropriate time management in place, we've all got lots of things to juggle, make sure there's time for study, research, try not to put things off, note from experience. - There's some very practical advice there, Haydn. - No worries. - I might ask you to talk to a few more of my other students and staff. - Happy to. - Because it's those very practical things that work and quite rightly, as you say, from experience. - It's - given that I work in the community sector sphere and I design programs to help people on the spectrum to develop resilience based approaches and I’m struggling, it’s a difficult time, even for someone with experience in having those appropriate self care strategies in place, they can fall through and if you have a support need, ask. - That's great. - Brandon, can I pop in here because I know we had a question from one of our listeners who was wondering how much of advocate do you need to be to get reasonable adjustments that you need to study, so what I'm hearing from you, Haydn, that was a really important part of something that you do, you reach out, let people know you are struggling and you need some adjustments. - Yes, that's not always the easiest thing for people to do. Even though I'm autistic, I'm a naturally social person, the Tourettes can complicate interactions sometimes, but I let it wash off and try and get on with it. It's not something you can devote time or worry about. For those people who are socially anxious, getting - if somebody else could jump in because I'm probably going to tick for a couple of minutes. - The support that you need is really important, especially for your mental health, and your ability to function. Haydn, you said it all, there's not much else I can say, great job. - Maxine, there is. Because I don't have children and you do. I don't have that, how do you, as a mother, juggle that. - I can't put it in the bin. I have to give them all their own time. They have learning difficulties as well as I do, it was really hard because my son is in Grade 6 and I’ve got a Preppie, for 13 weeks of isolation, tried counting to 10 and we still go 1, 4, 8, which is amazing, getting there slowly. Just having to find the time for each child, yourself, study, their needs, so I put my children's schooling over three days and I study for two days and on the weekend, we go for a walk or something. - And you say I'm a champion. I don't have that to juggle. - You and Ryan are amazing. You give me inspiration. I really want to do my diploma, well done, you should be very proud of yourselves. - Wonderful, this is happening without us, Brandon, this is amazing. - I sat back and I'm listening and thinking of the audiences I would like you guys to come and talk to. It's wonderful and thank you for sharing this. It's wonderfully honest, but it's very real world isn't it. It's very real world. - Our world is a bit different to people that don't have additional needs, we’re all struggling, but if you have anxiety, depression or anything like that, mental health issues, with a disability, it's really hard sometimes to go, hey, I'm here, I need some support or I don't feel comfortable around heaps of people at the moment. It's good to look after yourself and be able to be the voice of reason for other people that might struggle out there, the three top people like us can go, hey, how are you, this is me, maybe someone else may have the strength and encouragement to do it as well. Well done, man. - That's great, Maxine, thank you very much. Ryan, I'd like to bring you back in to the conversation. Deb asked, because there was a question put in about do students have to be a strong advocate for themselves? Please feel free to comment to that. Otherwise, I might ask you to talk to a little bit about what some of the challenges of the online classroom have been for yourself recently. - I would say, in relation to advocacy and getting reasonable adjustments, I think that really depends, like everything else, on an individual need basis, and yes, sometimes you do need to speak up and advocate a bit more strongly, but my experience with TAFE over many years now has been that it’s generally been there most of the time. Occasionally, I've had to mention something, but most facilitators have been fairly aware and obliging most of the time. In regards to challenges in moving to online study, that has been difficult for me at times, because I use voice recognition software when I'm kind of doing assessments and even on Zoom and stuff like that, in order for me to use the voice recognition software, the microphone has to be on and able to go so that I can dictate into whatever I need to dictate into, but in order for me to use Zoom effectively and not interrupt people and all of those sorts of things, the microphone has to be turned off. So, in the middle of class, when we have activities to do and stuff like that, it's almost impossible without support beside me which I now don't have, for me to actually do the activities that are set during class time. I have to take those activities, I have to look back through the Zoom stuff, and then I have to do those activities for homework because I don't have any other option. - That's a great insight. Thank you for sharing that, it's clearly presenting a particular challenge for yourself there and how you are studying, thank you, that's really good. There's clearly been challenges for everybody and for all students, educators, services staff, and for different businesses, quite frankly, in 2020. We move along and we are really interested to know from your perspective what has worked well for you, as an online learner. Ryan, can I stay with you for that? Is there anything, any particular comments you would like to make about what's worked well? - Yeah. As far as what's worked well, I’m going to say that the freedom to be able to kind of log in at home and not necessarily have to be up at 5 o'clock in the morning so I can get in to the city for a 9 o'clock class is really awesome. In regards to being able to step away when you need to step away for whatever reason and being able to just do that without having to try and excuse yourself or not interrupt other people while they are learning is really positive, I think. - Thanks, Ryan. Maxine, is there anything that you would like to add to that about what's worked well? - What works well for me is probably the fact that, my last teacher - we had three teachers during my - it was part‑time so it was over the year, we had three teachers and each teacher was absolutely amazing, so we had Catherine and Anita and Antia and at the end, because I had so much happening, I also had a pending court case too about my lovely childhood, so I had three special needs children, study, a court case, and some of the stuff I wasn't able to do because it was too much and she let me do it over the phone. So, instead of recording myself because I felt really uncomfortable behind the camera at the time, Antia just called me up and she asked me the questions over the phone so she worked with me for me to be able to finish off the module. I wasn't asking to be treated differently, but it was nice to have the option of, okay, this person is feeling this way so to acknowledge and understand I have some difficulties with it and I was still able to get my assignment done that way. - Thanks Maxine, talking about what's worked well and there have been some benefits of this situation that we suddenly all found ourself in. Haydn, is that something that was similar for you? - I would say that Australia being essentially five years behind the rest of the world in terms of IT infrastructure, the fact we've had to develop this massive change of working from home, remote learning, the fact that the virus has forced us to create this infrastructure at very short notice, I think it's going to provide opportunities for employment and remote learning down the road for people who aren't necessarily ambulatory or have additional disabilities. It could benefit people in rural areas that don't have access to great internet or services. There is a silver lining. I don't think it's a great silver lining, but I think with a bit of innovation, we could be overcoming some pretty significant barriers in terms of communication and distance employment. A year ago, we weren't all studying via Zoom or we weren't all remotely working - that wasn't outly a practice, now it's becoming quite common place. I personally have a lot of days where I'm not capable of driving or interacting with equipment in a safe manner, so I have to prioritise my work days and tasks depending on how functional am on a day‑to‑day basis. So, in a way, this has provided some benefits for me having some infrastructure here. - That's the thing with silver linings. They kind of come out of nowhere, when you were saying before that it was difficult to get information, there was a lot of uncertainty. You were moving in to a situation that you weren't happy with and had no control over, and sometimes in those grey moments or dark moments, the silver linings emerge and I love how you talked about those, not only for yourself, but for rural and regional communities as a whole, for people that it helps them to work from home, work and studying from home. I’m wondering if there’s anything in a specific way you were taught in online learning that you think, I wouldn't mind keeping on doing that even if we need to go back to campus, what's something about this time that you think, oh, please, can they keep that? - Recordings. - So, lecture recordings, class recordings. - I'm not always in the best frame of mind to take all the information in so being able to go back and listen at a time when I'm more on the ball that's been a great benefit. - Good. Maxine, you were saying something then, too. - Zoom, definitely. Being able to if your life is a bit hectic and you can't make it in to class, being able to access from a different place, that was amazing. That was really helpful. And recordings, but the recordings disappeared after the week which was hard because you couldn't go back after a week and revisit them, so I found that to be challenging especially since I had to break up my time between my children and myself for studying. - Especially, because you were quite busy managing everything, so I imagine having that available for the extra time would be beneficial, even when you’re recapping on things. So, Zoom is a big one and we know for people that work in this area that Zoom has been a bit of a life saver and having the recordings like Haydn. What about you, Ryan, anything you would like to continue in the way you have been participating in class or learning? - I think, for me, I would not mind the idea of the Zoom to kind of be a part of the fabric now. Because it has already been mentioned, the option for recordings and stuff is really useful. I still have a note taker and I believe the note taker is still beneficial because I have used my notes as part of referencing material for assignments, but being able to actually go back and look at exactly what the facilitator has said is really useful and I think, like Maxine had mentioned, this semester, it hasn't been the case for me, my facilitator has left the recordings on Connect, so we were able to go back and have a look at those even if it's been a few weeks, certainly last semester, for me, one facilitator took them down after a week which I would find easier if they develop a folder on Connect and leave them there for the duration of the semester, that would be helpful. I had another facilitator last semester who started recording, but then said that she was going to stop because it was becoming a privacy issue. So, being able to determine where those things lie would also be helpful and beneficial for other people, I think. - Thank you, that's some really good practical advice. Brandon, I'll pass back to you now. - Thank you very much. Thanks, guys, it's really really good to get your experience and your input. I'm going to move to some slightly different questions now because for all of the attendees and participants today, we know for our own professional development when we look at our service provision, either as a team or as an individual, we have to be very honest and expect some critical and constructive feedback from our students about what works or what we can actually do better. So, I'm going to throw it out there and for everybody else's benefit, it's quite a big question: Do you have any tips or feedback or teachers or for support staff on how to better engage with students online or to increase participation in an online classroom? Haydn? Can I come to you first for this one? - You can. As someone who has had to design their own courses to teach a group of adolescents, transitioning to the online environment has been difficult because I don't have the learners in the room, I don’t have control over what they’re doing, I have to compete with smart devices, gaming consoles and the like and I may have been guilty during my own lessons once of just browsing Facebook and mucking around, which I certainly would never have done in person in class. So, I think, my advice for teachers depending on the age range of your students or the demographic, obviously consider your student demographic. I work mostly with teenagers and young men, so have a participation agreement - this is what we expect, you’re adult learners. I primarily work with students on the autism spectrum. Pardon my language, I have a saying in my classes, autism does not excuse arrogance, assholery or - I won't say the third thing. But essentially, yes, you have a disability, yes, it might be that little bit harder for you, try not to make excuses where you don't need to. We've all done it. I know I have. But when you are dealing with a student base, remember that you are competing for their time, attention, and you are not going to have that feedback, you're not going to be able to read the room as well as you would be in a physical class. So, you might want to take more frequent breaks because at least, from my perspective, it does take more of my time and attention to focus on an online learning environment because it could be distractions, my cat could jump on my lap - you go to the gym, you go to train, you go to TAFE or university, you are going there to study. When you are sitting at home, you have other things. So, more frequent breaks, accountability, responsibility and check in with your learners and go, do you need a break, water, the loo? And depending on your classroom size, yeah, consider your learners, consider environment, what you are teaching and try and use your judgment and be aware you may not be able to see everything that's going on. If in doubt, ask. Visual fatigue, Wendy, you are life saver. Yes, that too. I think I'm done. - That's great, Haydn. Thank you. It's a really interesting comment that you make about participation agreement and what that looks like and how that's communicated and maybe how often that's also communicated. As simple as asking the room which, of course, can be a very large Zoom room, are we all ready for a break now? It's a simple question, obviously you are trying to gauge. Okay. Maxine, I can tell that you were in agreement with Haydn on those points that he raised, so, tips or feedback for teachers or to support staff how to better engage. Anything to add? - No, once again, Haydn has got it, you are really good at this, Haydn, great job. I was really lucky, where my teachers and disability support staff are really amazing, they knew I had a big year and were happy to support me in any way I needed. There is nothing I can say or suggest, I definitely agree that with Haydn, you can't use your disability as an excuse for bad behaviour, you're not your behaviour, you're not your disability, you choose the person you want to be. My son, I make sure - he has the ticks and little traits, but he is not allowed to be a mean child or bad kid. We make sure he knows what's acceptable and what's not, so, putting the ground rules in and participating - this is what I expect from you and this is what you have to do in my class, basic respect. - Good to hear, thank you, Maxine. Ryan, I know that you had some tips and feedback, would you like to talk to that for a moment please? - Yeah. I just kind of mention that it would be good if all facilitators got complete access to Zoom. My facilitator that I have this semester is a part‑time facilitator and hadn't been given full access to Zoom yet when she started the semester which made it really difficult for her because she was unable to record to start with and then she doesn't have access to breakout rooms which — I think breakout rooms are a huge part of the learning environment because it puts people within groups and being able to work together as a team and things like that. I think that's very important as part of the natural learning process. The other thing that I did mention is that I would like to see facilitators and teachers in a neutral environment where they can safely leave their camera on despite what their students may wish to do. Only because I find, particularly this semester, people are less likely to engage if they don't have any sort of body language or facial expression, or anything to kind of read off like that and get the positive vibes going. - Thanks, Ryan. Again, the camera is a new one for all of us, educators as well as students, we know people don't like being on camera even though we spend our lives face to face with people. Ryan, I'm going to stay with you because we wanted to also ask if you could give some advice now to a new student who is about to commence study in an online environment, what would you say to them? - The advice I'd give is similar to things that Haydn mentioned earlier, just goal setting and trying to keep yourself engaged in the classroom environment, whatever that classroom environment looks like, whether it's in class or on Zoom or whatever the case may be. Sure, you can have your phone or tablet somewhere within about two metres so that you can get to it if you need to get to it, but I would suggest probably putting those other devices that you're not using for the classroom environment immediately kind of out of reach a bit so you are not distracted by those things unnecessarily, and just kind of set goals so you can keep motivation going, I suppose. - Thanks, Ryan. Maxine? We have a new student who might come to you and say, Maxine, you're an award winning student, you are a successful woman, you've managed your children, studies, family, what advice could you give us about studying in this new world? - Say congratulations for stepping towards your future. It’s a lot easier than it looks. Take a deep breath, one more step at a time, you have got this. And shout out to TAFE Queensland. It's absolutely amazing, this day and age and technology that we can access, the support that's given, TAFE deserves a standing ovation. There's nothing holding you back, simple as that. Some days can be really hard, but you'll get there and you'll smile at the end of that, as I'm saying that my child is putting shapes everywhere. - Haydn, would you like to add anything about a new student. You have been a student, working with students, running a business, what do you say to this person who is about to commence their journey in this new world of study? - I would say, congratulations for having the moral fibre to choose to undertake study in spite of everything going on at the moment. It is a difficult time, there is a tremendous amount of uncertainty. Going… pardon me. I have had nothing but positive experiences to say about my time studying over the years at TAFE. It's been probably the reason why I'm at where I'm at today. I'm a person of very modest family means. Didn't have the best start, but ultimately, education is one of the best pathways to better one's circumstances and I don't care how smart you are or how dumb you think you are, if you think you have everything or nothing to give the world, there is something you can do, and even if you have the skills, getting that piece of paper can be the difference between… hi, Berinda ‑ my former boss. - Haydn has been asked a question here, we can see, but you probably can’t. So, Haydn, do you want to just let everyone know what the question might be? - I'll answer this because this is it coming from a former head of disability at a local branch in TAFE. My mentor. - I think there's a question there about what about your support at TAFE? - Do you mean the support I received or the support I'm providing? - I think what you received. - Okay. So, Berinda found me about 15 years ago walking around in circles having lost something, sorry that's a motif that's repeated in my story. I initially had some high level support needs, I had a tutor, scribe, essentially my teachers were helping me rephrase the nature of assessment questions so they made sense in my mind, my intelligence wasn't the problem, but mainstream education has never suited the way I learn. I was the kid at 5 years old in kindergarten, when the dinosaur expert says, “What's this?” I was the kid that says, “That's a Tyrannosaurus rex brain case,” rather than, “That's a dinosaur skull.” Support needs. Extensive, multi-facetted and fortunately, has reduced over time to the point where I now train others in developing their own support networks and support methods so they can maximise their own independence in a mainstream employment or educational environment. I have a very silly business model because I make myself redundant. - Which is always a great motif for anyone working with other people in human and health community services, to make ourselves redundant. We haven't got long left and I wanted to put a few questions to you that have been coming in. One is about the practical ‑ this is from Bobbie ‑ about the practical things that you needed to study online and I know, Ryan, you started off saying it was a bit messy at first because you didn't have internet and maybe didn't have the hardware at home. What advice do you have for students who might not have a similar set-up or might not have the set-up they need - haven’t got the software, hardware or internet, about the minimum requirements that are needed to study online? - I would say, try to make sure that you have access to whatever you can and however you can get it, sometimes that means going to the library, sometimes that means talking to friends, but importantly, for me, because it's hard for me to actually travel and do all of those sorts of things, plus we were all essentially in lockdown anyway, so, not really possible. It was important for me to directly communicate with the faculty co‑ordinator and say, look, this is the situation, I don't have access to stable internet, I don't have access to these things where I can get to the resources on Connect, and she then said, okay, we will organise these things for you as quickly as we can, how would you like to receive them, either hard copies or via USB and things like that. I opted for USB because it would then be on my hard drive and probably backed up elsewhere so I could get to it later, not to mention shuffling papers is not good when you have a physical disability. So, just making sure that you access things however you can, it might mean that you need to pull in a few favours, but importantly, make sure you communicate with the relevant stakeholders involved so they can offer you the support that is required. - Thank you. Yes, that's tricky when you are in lockdown, we were essentially in lockdown so we needed to survive with what we have. We asked for help and what you said was reflected in the survey that we did around what was happening in universities and TAFEs across Australia and it seems the support that universities and TAFEs were able to offer their student in terms of additional funding and doing things differently, and helping them access the hardware or software they needed was great, so great it played out like that for you as well. Also a question we had come in before the webinar, I'm going to ask it a bit differently, it's about what strategies you've used to manage your anxiety during this time and you've all mentioned anxiety has been part of that process of adjusting to change and ways you managed it that will be good for you after you finish TAFE and moving to employment. I'm going to ask you to give me two words that sums up what strategies have you used to manage your anxiety in a way that will be helpful for you after you finish TAFE. Haydn, do you want to give us two words? - Two words. You haven't made it easy for me, Deb. - I haven't, have I? While you are thinking, Ryan? - Seek support. - Nice. That's how you have managed your anxiety in a way that will continue on. I like how they're linked together, you didn't need much time, Haydn. Thank you. Ryan? - Oxygen, sunshine. - Love it. Can't get too much of either. Maxine? Are you still there? Not sure. I can't see her image anymore. - I don't think she's still online. - Maybe we have a four year old whose needs got greater than our needs. Really, that's about it, four minutes to go. Darlene, do you want to ask any of the other questions that came up in the Q&A? - Just two more there. One around the universal design, I don't know if you wanted to ask that, Deb? - It is a big question, the specific issues that could be resolved in terms of format and connected delivery content and I think we came up some specific issues around that, skirted around the edges of that. - Not a problem. I think we're getting to the end, I wonder if everybody wants to put their two words in the chat, Wendy has put in, “Be prepared,” might be good to see other people's two words they want to add to the chat. That was fantastic. I'm sad Wendy is not here to hear the wrap up, I thought it was going to be powerful and it was, I received private texts from people to say I can't wait to share this with others in TAFE. I think this is going to go wide, impactful going forward for others to share. Thank you so much for giving your time and wisdom, Ryan and Haydn, and thank you to the fantastic facilitators, I could listen to you all day with your wisdom and passion for your roles. Maxine is back now, we’re wrapping up, Maxine, saying thank you to everybody. Sorry, you missed the last couple of seconds. It was fantastic to have you here. Thank you everybody for joining us. It's nearly Friday. Yay. - Thank you so much for having me. I apologise, my four year old closed the computer on me. - Don't you love studying and working from home. - That's typical, my life. - Welcome to 2020. Thank you, everybody, and have a great day. - Have a wonderful day, bye guys. - Bye.